ROME (Reuters) – An Italian Jewish leader told Pope Benedict Sunday that his wartime predecessor Pius XII should have spoken out more forcefully against the Holocaust to show solidarity with Jews being led to the "ovens of Auschwitz."
The comments, from the president of Rome's Jewish community Riccardo Pacifici, were made during the pope's first visit to Rome's synagogue and were some of the bluntest ever spoken by a Jewish leader in public to a pope.
"The silence of Pius XII before the Shoah, still hurts because something should have been done," Pacifici told the pope, using the Hebrew word for the Holocaust.
- comment -
Prof. Hot Air,
This is exactly what I was trying to express with regard to the fallout from the comment made by the Las Vegas teacher*. Every rational person in the free world knows of the horrors of the Holocaust. Pope Pius XII died almost 52 years ago. He really can't defend himself at this point. Would a second hand apology from Pope Benedict and/or the Catholic Church on the behalf of Pope Pius XII's alleged lack of enthusiasm in his proactive speaking engagements as they pertained to the Holocaust be accepted by the Jewish Community? I doubt it. So, why pitch a fit?
In light of the continuing sensitivity issue surrounding the Jewish Community's anguish with respect to insufficient world attention as it relates to the devastating effects of the Holocaust, I'm recommending the following: All documents pertaining to the atrocities committed by the Nazi Party and all affiliates where it applies to the blatant disregard for, and specifically the Jewish people, should be ratified by preceding the description "bad", when speaking of any criminal conduct or disdain for human life, with "very".
If memory serves, the world didn't know about the concentration camps and the murderous goings on at the camps until these unfortunate victims were liberated by American Soldiers near the end of the war. Pope Pius Xll did not have a crystal ball. If he did, it may have encouraged a foot stomping, or perhaps a shoe banging incident similar to that of Nikita Khrushchev's at the UN General Assembly, to further show his protest and distaste for the war as well as the attempted annihilation of a race.
They need to understand that the current Pope dedicates a tremendous amount of effort towards world peace. He's an old man, for God's sake. Leave him alone already. There isn't anything we can do with the events of yesterday except learn from our mistakes. And besides, the Apocalypse is approaching and I'm sure he has an immense amount of prep work in planning stages that needs to be addressed.
- farmisht Acolyte
* ref : The Freedom of Speech, essay Jan. 1, 2010 on this blog
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Farmisht,(an analysis)
This is exactly what I was trying to express with regard to the fallout from the comment made by the Las Vegas teacher.*(see ref. above) Every rational person in the free world knows of the horrors of the Holocaust.
Young "rational" people do not research their history as much as determine which history they choose to believe from the spectrum of opinions on events they are told. It is the context of these exchanges that promotes a personal appeal and subsequent appraisel of its worth and utility. Facts are another matter entirely. The child's world begins with an absolute deference to some parental figure from whom all sufficient references and descriptions are supplied. Soon enough, he will begin attending a public school where additional influences will upgrade and broaden the previous horizons with both fresh information and more elaborate contexts, resulting in the first break from the parent's passive grip on absolute authority. This freedom from protracted infancy does not however provide the emancipated child with all-out protection against predatory influences. This will require a developed sense of trust, which like truth, takes from one source, many shapes. All we can ever hope to accomplish as teachers for our young is to emphasize the value of context and labor to nourish it, protect it and if need be, rebuild it with time. A lie told in a temple is among the harshest offenses to a good society. Yet as you point out, it is an evil among us.
It is for this reason I cannot let predators like Sublette release her poison inside a public school without directing attention to it.
I would like to point out also, that
- irrational people enter the voting boothes on a regular basis
- most "rational" people are strangers to rational thinking, prefering to believe what is gained from irrational or compromised contexts
- the remaining "rational" people are generally mistrusted for the austerity of their values
Pope Pius XII died almost 52 years ago. He really can't defend himself at this point. Would a second hand apology from Pope Benedict and/or the Catholic Church on the behalf of Pope Pius XII's alleged lack of enthusiasm in his proactive speaking engagements as they pertained to the Holocaust be accepted by the Jewish Community? I doubt it. So, why pitch a fit?
I think President Clinton's 1997 apology to Rwanda for the Slave trade was a noble attempt to allow the U.S. to begin healing and acknowledge before the African people our admission of the crime and acknowledgement of its severity.
I also believe John Paul II's forgiveness of Galileo on November 4, 1992 was not a wasted gesture either.
If not now, where and when will the madness end? Who or what is protected by maintaining silence on this issue? Catholic pride?
I believe the Pope is assumed to represent the Catholic Church and was never intended to be distinct from it. The silence of the Pope under this premise amounts to the silence of the Catholic Church and by virtue of his "infallible" association, the Lord Himself. By this reasoning, the stain of Papal silence during the Holocaust deprived a few hundred million Catholic faithful an orthodox, reasoned denunciation of the brutality from their highest order of context. This position will live for as long as the Church remains vital and silent on the subject.
There is a proverb which reads: "Not to decide is to decide." Through his eloquent silence I believe most "rational" people around the world inferred some understanding of the Pope's position on the Holocaust. One need only contrast this behavior with the current unified voice of Catholics against abortion.
I also believe you are wrong about the primal power of an apology. Pitch the fit.
In light of the continuing sensitivity issue surrounding the Jewish Community's anguish with respect to insufficient world attention as it relates to the devastating effects of the Holocaust, I'm recommending the following: All documents pertaining to the atrocities committed by the Nazi Party and all affiliates where it applies to the blatant disregard for, and specifically the Jewish people, should be ratified by preceding the description "bad", when speaking of any criminal conduct or disdain for human life, with "very".
I love the sentence but feel it is undermined by a sophomoric, anti-semetic attenuation of a serious situation. If you are bothered by a child with a propensity to whine, do you as an adult, turn a scornful ear when she is in pain? The holocaust for the Jewish people was more like an amputation then a contusion. The healing will never be complete until the patient learns to heal from the inside. As long as the world treats them as whining, one legged children, they will not heal and we will not be free from it.
If memory serves, the world didn't know about the concentration camps and the murderous goings on at the camps until these unfortunate victims were liberated by American Soldiers near the end of the war.
Oh! the power of keeping our dutiful little mouthes shut . . .
Pope Pius Xll did not have a crystal ball. If he did, it may have encouraged a foot stomping, or perhaps a shoe banging incident similar to that of Nikita Khrushchev's at the UN General Assembly, to further show his protest and distaste for the war as well as the attempted annihilation of a race.
Why didn't he borrow Churchill's or Roosevelt's globe? Are you suggesting the Church was "outclassed" by the baffoonish Krushchev? Besides, the Pope wears slippers, doesn't he? Kinda "anti-clamitic" no? . . .
They need to understand that the current Pope dedicates a tremendous amount of effort towards world peace. He's an old man, for God's sake. Leave him alone already.
I just read that standing in a balcony and saying "I'm Sorry" burns fewer than five calories. (Even fewer if you say it in Latin)
There isn't anything we can do with the events of yesterday except learn from our mistakes. And besides, the Apocalypse is approaching and I'm sure he has an immense amount of prep work in planning stages that needs to be addressed.
Our past mistakes include too many missed opportunities to apologize and own up to our more shameful moments.
And wait just a doggone minute here! . . Wasn't it Jesus himself who begged for us to heed the word and repent ye on thy death bed, at Death's door, to ask forgiveness from Him, for our sins and trangressions, before the hour of our Earthly departure draws nigh?
I do declare Mr. Kevin Hoople, but you are the confusing one I'll say . . .
- H.W.
The comments, from the president of Rome's Jewish community Riccardo Pacifici, were made during the pope's first visit to Rome's synagogue and were some of the bluntest ever spoken by a Jewish leader in public to a pope.
"The silence of Pius XII before the Shoah, still hurts because something should have been done," Pacifici told the pope, using the Hebrew word for the Holocaust.
- comment -
Prof. Hot Air,
This is exactly what I was trying to express with regard to the fallout from the comment made by the Las Vegas teacher*. Every rational person in the free world knows of the horrors of the Holocaust. Pope Pius XII died almost 52 years ago. He really can't defend himself at this point. Would a second hand apology from Pope Benedict and/or the Catholic Church on the behalf of Pope Pius XII's alleged lack of enthusiasm in his proactive speaking engagements as they pertained to the Holocaust be accepted by the Jewish Community? I doubt it. So, why pitch a fit?
In light of the continuing sensitivity issue surrounding the Jewish Community's anguish with respect to insufficient world attention as it relates to the devastating effects of the Holocaust, I'm recommending the following: All documents pertaining to the atrocities committed by the Nazi Party and all affiliates where it applies to the blatant disregard for, and specifically the Jewish people, should be ratified by preceding the description "bad", when speaking of any criminal conduct or disdain for human life, with "very".
If memory serves, the world didn't know about the concentration camps and the murderous goings on at the camps until these unfortunate victims were liberated by American Soldiers near the end of the war. Pope Pius Xll did not have a crystal ball. If he did, it may have encouraged a foot stomping, or perhaps a shoe banging incident similar to that of Nikita Khrushchev's at the UN General Assembly, to further show his protest and distaste for the war as well as the attempted annihilation of a race.
They need to understand that the current Pope dedicates a tremendous amount of effort towards world peace. He's an old man, for God's sake. Leave him alone already. There isn't anything we can do with the events of yesterday except learn from our mistakes. And besides, the Apocalypse is approaching and I'm sure he has an immense amount of prep work in planning stages that needs to be addressed.
- farmisht Acolyte
* ref : The Freedom of Speech, essay Jan. 1, 2010 on this blog
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Farmisht,(an analysis)
This is exactly what I was trying to express with regard to the fallout from the comment made by the Las Vegas teacher.*(see ref. above) Every rational person in the free world knows of the horrors of the Holocaust.
Young "rational" people do not research their history as much as determine which history they choose to believe from the spectrum of opinions on events they are told. It is the context of these exchanges that promotes a personal appeal and subsequent appraisel of its worth and utility. Facts are another matter entirely. The child's world begins with an absolute deference to some parental figure from whom all sufficient references and descriptions are supplied. Soon enough, he will begin attending a public school where additional influences will upgrade and broaden the previous horizons with both fresh information and more elaborate contexts, resulting in the first break from the parent's passive grip on absolute authority. This freedom from protracted infancy does not however provide the emancipated child with all-out protection against predatory influences. This will require a developed sense of trust, which like truth, takes from one source, many shapes. All we can ever hope to accomplish as teachers for our young is to emphasize the value of context and labor to nourish it, protect it and if need be, rebuild it with time. A lie told in a temple is among the harshest offenses to a good society. Yet as you point out, it is an evil among us.
It is for this reason I cannot let predators like Sublette release her poison inside a public school without directing attention to it.
I would like to point out also, that
- irrational people enter the voting boothes on a regular basis
- most "rational" people are strangers to rational thinking, prefering to believe what is gained from irrational or compromised contexts
- the remaining "rational" people are generally mistrusted for the austerity of their values
Pope Pius XII died almost 52 years ago. He really can't defend himself at this point. Would a second hand apology from Pope Benedict and/or the Catholic Church on the behalf of Pope Pius XII's alleged lack of enthusiasm in his proactive speaking engagements as they pertained to the Holocaust be accepted by the Jewish Community? I doubt it. So, why pitch a fit?
I think President Clinton's 1997 apology to Rwanda for the Slave trade was a noble attempt to allow the U.S. to begin healing and acknowledge before the African people our admission of the crime and acknowledgement of its severity.
I also believe John Paul II's forgiveness of Galileo on November 4, 1992 was not a wasted gesture either.
If not now, where and when will the madness end? Who or what is protected by maintaining silence on this issue? Catholic pride?
I believe the Pope is assumed to represent the Catholic Church and was never intended to be distinct from it. The silence of the Pope under this premise amounts to the silence of the Catholic Church and by virtue of his "infallible" association, the Lord Himself. By this reasoning, the stain of Papal silence during the Holocaust deprived a few hundred million Catholic faithful an orthodox, reasoned denunciation of the brutality from their highest order of context. This position will live for as long as the Church remains vital and silent on the subject.
There is a proverb which reads: "Not to decide is to decide." Through his eloquent silence I believe most "rational" people around the world inferred some understanding of the Pope's position on the Holocaust. One need only contrast this behavior with the current unified voice of Catholics against abortion.
I also believe you are wrong about the primal power of an apology. Pitch the fit.
In light of the continuing sensitivity issue surrounding the Jewish Community's anguish with respect to insufficient world attention as it relates to the devastating effects of the Holocaust, I'm recommending the following: All documents pertaining to the atrocities committed by the Nazi Party and all affiliates where it applies to the blatant disregard for, and specifically the Jewish people, should be ratified by preceding the description "bad", when speaking of any criminal conduct or disdain for human life, with "very".
I love the sentence but feel it is undermined by a sophomoric, anti-semetic attenuation of a serious situation. If you are bothered by a child with a propensity to whine, do you as an adult, turn a scornful ear when she is in pain? The holocaust for the Jewish people was more like an amputation then a contusion. The healing will never be complete until the patient learns to heal from the inside. As long as the world treats them as whining, one legged children, they will not heal and we will not be free from it.
If memory serves, the world didn't know about the concentration camps and the murderous goings on at the camps until these unfortunate victims were liberated by American Soldiers near the end of the war.
Oh! the power of keeping our dutiful little mouthes shut . . .
Pope Pius Xll did not have a crystal ball. If he did, it may have encouraged a foot stomping, or perhaps a shoe banging incident similar to that of Nikita Khrushchev's at the UN General Assembly, to further show his protest and distaste for the war as well as the attempted annihilation of a race.
Why didn't he borrow Churchill's or Roosevelt's globe? Are you suggesting the Church was "outclassed" by the baffoonish Krushchev? Besides, the Pope wears slippers, doesn't he? Kinda "anti-clamitic" no? . . .
They need to understand that the current Pope dedicates a tremendous amount of effort towards world peace. He's an old man, for God's sake. Leave him alone already.
I just read that standing in a balcony and saying "I'm Sorry" burns fewer than five calories. (Even fewer if you say it in Latin)
There isn't anything we can do with the events of yesterday except learn from our mistakes. And besides, the Apocalypse is approaching and I'm sure he has an immense amount of prep work in planning stages that needs to be addressed.
Our past mistakes include too many missed opportunities to apologize and own up to our more shameful moments.
And wait just a doggone minute here! . . Wasn't it Jesus himself who begged for us to heed the word and repent ye on thy death bed, at Death's door, to ask forgiveness from Him, for our sins and trangressions, before the hour of our Earthly departure draws nigh?
I do declare Mr. Kevin Hoople, but you are the confusing one I'll say . . .
- H.W.
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